A great discussion on Christianity vs Atheism

If you have any interest in the subject at all, I suggest you read JD Walters’ post Setting the record straight: the psychology of one ‘true believer’ at CADRE Comments.  Not only is the post a great response to the current state of atheist blogging (aside from folks like Brad Monton), but John Loftus responds in the following discussion.  In JD’s conclusion, he says:

But despite all this, when all is said and done I can reflect on my faith with satisfaction at its firmness, not a result of ignorance but precisely its opposite, a deeper understanding of my tradition and the disciplines which Loftus claims lead people away from faith (as Francis Bacon remarked long ago, a little learning inclines people to atheism, but more learning brings them back to theism).

With all of the “New Atheist” hoopla over the past couple of years, I would agree with Walters: the truth remains that atheism has been tried and found wanting.

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6 Responses to A great discussion on Christianity vs Atheism

  1. me says:

    Thumpalumpacus, I think it is you who haven’t been paying attention. People fuel violence, with or without religion. And, religion does not impede progress; in fact, historically it is the other way around. Again, some people can impede progress. Don’t blame “religion” – who’s painting with a broad brush?

  2. Thumpalumpacus says:

    From whence this righteous indignation, as though human salvation depends upon the belief that there is no salvation? — Quixote

    Religion, not Christianity, is this atheist’s target. If you need to ask “whence righteous indignation?”, you haven’t been paying attention. Religious schism fuels violence. People are made to suffer and die over their conception of something which is ineffable at best and, in all likelihood, non-extant.

    The fact that religion impedes progress in so many fields — say, reducing preventable deaths in Africa due to AIDS, because of their religious stance against birth control, would by itself be answer enough. But there’s more: the biggest problem in this world is the ongoing environmental catastrophe, which is, at root, caused by the population explosion. Yet distribution of condoms and family-planning information is effectively combatted by two of the three Abrahamic faiths.

    “When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important, and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples.”

    Slow down there, pal; you’re painting with a broad brush. First, most atheists I know love the fact that we’re part of nature, and that nature will continue in our absence. I’m one of those. Additionally, is it not religion which shudders with every demotion of man? Heliocentrism? Evolution? Give me a break. This quote is not only presumptuous, it’s mighty condescending. Stick to what you know.

  3. Dan says:

    Michael: Well, if you consider that Jesus is theoretically only an extension of YHWH, God of the Israelites, then technically at least some humans have uttered the name of God (assuming that we also follow with the Israelites claim that followers of YHWH were around at the beginning of the earth, whenever that was).

    You are right, though, to point out that Christianity does not have an exclusive claim on morality; even Paul admitted this much. However, I would argue that you are being unfair by equating all christians with the institution of christianity; not all christians agree with the actions the church has taken over the years, just as all Americans do not agree with the actions of the american government, and all muslims do not agree with the actions of organizations claiming to be disciples of Islam.

  4. Michael says:

    I’m not an atheist. I think people need myths to related to a higher ideal (which may or may not be god). It’s a metaphysical idea – – and a human need.

    That having been said…

    Christianity is, at it’s core, absurd. As human generated myths go, it’s one of the wilder concoctions – – a flying bearded zombie hippie god who sheds his messy blood to “wash your sins” etc.

    Don’t get me wrong… Religion is here to stay. But the Christian interlude will soon pass, and the West will finally enter a more mature Myth-as-utility paradigm. The fix is in. Just google “Census / Christianity in trouble” and you’ll have hours of fun reading.

    The truly funny thing about all this is that while Christians may post here defending their childish need for a Santa Claus religion, their kids have already abandoned the faith because they have access to Wikipedia.

    By turning Jesus into a Mithriatic superhero, the early church really screwed up. Mel Gibson’s debacle “Passion” did nothing to increase church attendance. Rather, it pointed out to a generation of young and savvy people, who had not yet read the Bible, how silly the myth is.

    Spiderman has more power than Jesus, who couldn’t even save himself. The deeper “so called” mysteries of Christianity feel contrived, hackneyed, and incomplete. Where, after all is Jesus’ heavenly mommy?

    What modern child is going to miss that glaring problem? The fact is that children are the future, and most of them would rather be a Jedi mystic than a butt groping medieval Priest.

    The church is finished, and after witnessing their heavy handed approach to being the dominant faith, I am enjoying every dying squeal.

    So, for the sake of entertainment I encourage Christians to keep writing in. Tell us how we skeptics have forgotten to cross a “t” or dot an “i,” in our analysis, while you insist that Noah collected the animals two by two.

    It’s like watching a delightful train wreck in slow motion!

    Meanwhile, please don’t equate moral chaos with the absence of your ridiculous religion. Humans have survived for 100,000 years without even having uttered the name of Jesus. That cannot have occurred if we were all eating our own babies.

    As for the prophecy of the end times, it has been stated by philosophers far more eloquent than myself that these prophecies only apply to Christians.

    So, while YOUR world is coming to an end – – and who can disagree? – – my world is not.

    So goodbye Christianity. Don’t let the door hit ya’ where the good lord split ya.’

  5. me says:

    That’s a great quote.

  6. Quixote says:

    Atheist fury in itself is an oddity. Why such vexation over religion and its poison influence when the end is blank for all? From whence this righteous indignation, as though human salvation depends upon the belief that there is no salvation?

    I think our most vociferous atheist friends are frustrated by their own philosophy and are taking it out on us. In his story “The Open Boat,” Stephen Crane captures what I think is at the heart of New Atheist resentment:

    “When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important, and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples.”

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