The Great Blasphemy Challenge Debate – a short review

I missed it on Nightline, but I did catch most of it on the ABC News – Nightline page. The debate was between Kirk Cameron & Ray Comfort, the Christians, and Brian Sapient & Kelly, the Atheists. Kelly, by the way, has been kind enough to comment on an earlier blog post. Moderated by Martin Bashir, who did a fine job and through in a few good questions along the way, the debate was fairly interesting, but failed to deal with any of the real issues. My one unanswered question was, “why doesn’t Kelly use her last name?”

Everybody was respectul and well-behaved, except for one audience member who was obviously not concerned with overall suffering, just with cancer. She wouldn’t keep quiet until Comfort said he’d only use the word “cancer” rather than “suffering” in his answer.

The first point that needs to be mentioned is that Comfort totally failed to deliver in his promise to prove the existence of God scientifically, without resorting to faith or the Bible. I really don’t know what he was thinking, as his 3rd positive proof was based on the 10 Commandments. Sapient was quick to point that out, and suggested that 10 minutes or so into the program, it was all over and perhaps everyone should leave. Comfort’s other points also failed, showing he is not a great logician. For example, his proof that “a creation needs a creator” was oversimplified (although the atheist side still failed to defeat it). In fact, this segment is perhaps an ideal case study on bad logic…

Okay, here’s the problem: Comfort used 2 examples, the building they were in and a car, saying that it is obvious that they were designed; therefore, looking at creation we can also say it is obvious that it was designed. Now, granted, on one level that is true; however, it let Kelly seemingly trash the argument. She replied that we could talk to the builder and car manufacturer and see how it was made; we can’t see the creation factory. It was also pointed out that to use that argument for creation, we’d have to also show who created God. Now, I used to think that was a pretty good defeat of the “obvious designer” argument, but it actually fails miserably.

First, what is sometimes called the kalam argument says that “anything that has a beginning has a cause.” This is why the Big Bang theory shook up so many scientists and philosophers – it then presumed that there was a First Cause. God, being outside of creation, and presumably outside of time itself, did not have a “beginning” and therefore we cannot presume he needed a prior cause. Where the atheists still failed, however, is that just to say that the causation argument fails does not defeat the argument. You still are left with having to deal with the issue of causation. Once we establish the causation of creation, we can then deal with a next level of causation, if there is one.

The atheists used miserable logic all the way through, misrepresenting (or misunderstanding) Christianity, grace, and misstating evidence on the existence of Jesus. The atheists in the audience cheered loudly whenever they though a point was scored, showing that none of them were really thinking logically either. Sapient tended to rely on pithy sayings like “all life forms are transitionary,” which is really just a dodge. Overall, the atheist team was unimpressive.

Cameron and Comfort failed to keep their points scientific, didn’t do the best job of stating the arguments in favor of a Creator, but came off as thoughtful, caring people. The point was made (although not as well as I would have liked) that the decision to believe or not believe in God was not logical, but moral. The atheists as well came of as nice folks, but who have for the most part don’t understand the religions that they reject. It was a fairly balanced debate, and I doubt anyone who watched it changed their mind.

But, you never know.

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What the [blank] do we know 2: Do you believe in logic?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

As I started to explore in a recent post, ““What the [blank] do we know?” our ability to reason our way to knowledge may be much more limited than we like to think. As much as I like Aristotelian logic and reason (and I like them a lot), I am aware that not all cultures think this way, and this kind of thinking is rarely, if ever, involved in either their decision-making or belief. The Old Testament, for example, tells the story of one of these cultures (although we try to evaluate it using our own adopted logical systems). The original Star Trek series tended to illustrate this point quite often, showing that Spock’s “pure” logic was not only “inhuman,” but often deficient to decision-making which combined logic and human emotion.

The questions then, for me, are: Does our current formal system of logic (based on the principles devised by Aristotle) represent the highest form of reason (thinking)? Relying on formal logic, what can we actually know?

One of the primary weaknesses with formal logic as a means to knowledge is that it usually presupposes that we actually know something to start with; even a priori knowledge is to some extent presuppositional. For example, the statement all men are not women seems patently obvious and logical; however, it presupposes as fact that there are 2 classes, men and women, which are mutually exclusive. Much of the time, the truth of a particular premise will not be so immediately obvious, and here is where a lot of flaky logic happens. It is possible to have a perfectly logical argument that results in a conclusion which is false, because it is based on a false premise. (Examples include every argument against the existence of God that I’ve ever seen.)

Logic, however, is still a wonderful tool in helping people get from point A to point E; it’s a great way of organizing what you know (or think you know) and believe, and how it shakes out. It is especially helpful in testing an idea or belief – often we find that when taken to its logical conclusion, some of our ideas are pure nonsense.

What logic is perhaps best used for is to challenge ideas and prove things false (or logically impossible). In fact, I would hazard a guess that it is much easier to prove something false than to prove something is true. For one thing, to prove something true, you have to account for all other possibilities. However, all you have to do to prove an argument false is to show that either a premise is not true, or that there’s a logical inconsistency somewhere.

But, (to show how tricky logic is) here’s the problem with my last statement: does proving that an argument is illogical mean that the conclusion is false? Unfortunately, no. What you can prove is that the argument is invalid, not the truth or falsity of most (especially a posteriori) statements (you could perhaps disprove “black is white” types of statements).

Again, logic is an extremely beneficial tool, but it is my opinion that logic cannot really prove or disprove truth. Now, I realize that theories of knowledge have been argued for centuries; it’s not my goal to be the next Kant, and I’m not going to debate the nature of a priori knowledge, etc.

My point, rather, is that logic has the same limitations that I discussed concerning scientific knowledge. Logic, even at its best, can only take us so far. An oft-used example is that of a chair. We can prove with impeccable logic that a certain chair is capable of supporting your weight. You carefully evaluate the argument and conclude that this conclusion is true. At this point, are you sitting in the chair? It still takes a decision for you to sit in that chair. Whether by logic, science, or supernatural revelation, you still have to make a decision based upon what you have chosen to believe as knowledge. Now, you are sitting in the chair, and have proved that the conclusion to our logical argument about the chair is true. Or have you?

Have you really proved that the chair can support your weight? Isn’t is possible that there is some other unknown, invisible force that is supporting you? You can’t even prove that you have considered all of the other possible options, because being finite we cannot possibly know all of the options. It would seem, then, that truth is impossible to prove either by logic or by experience, and it certainly can’t account for your belief.

You can lead someone to a conclusion (which may or may not be the truth) but you can’t make them believe.

Do you believe?

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Living in The Matrix

We all knew it was true … The Matrix made too much sense not to be true. According to a recent article on PhysicsWeb.org, well, read it for yourself:

Some physicists are uncomfortable with the idea that all individual quantum events are innately random. This is why many have proposed more complete theories, which suggest that events are at least partially governed by extra “hidden variables”. Now physicists from Austria claim to have performed an experiment that rules out a broad class of hidden-variables theories that focus on realism — giving the uneasy consequence that reality does not exist when we are not observing it (Nature 446 871).

The experiments involve the firing of

entangled pairs of linearly-polarized photons in opposite directions towards two polarizers, which can be changed in orientation. Quantum mechanics says that there should be a high correlation between results at the polarizers because the photons instantaneously “decide” together which polarization to assume at the moment of measurement, even though they are separated in space.

Got that? A pair of photon twins (those are itty-bitty little particles of light) sent off in opposite direction simultaneously decide which polarity to assume at the precise moment when they are being observed. Apparently in Quantum theory, “realism, meaning that reality exists when we are not observing it; and locality, meaning that separated events cannot influence one another instantaneously” cannot both be assumed. The recent Austrian experiment claims to have shown that locality is not a problem, therefore isolating reality as suspect.

See? We’re in the Matrix. My questions then would be which of the philosophers of The Matrix were correct? Are the photons guided by purpose, destiny, causality or is it really choice? It seems that the questions all eventually come back to Design vs. Poof!.

So, do you want the red pill, or the blue pill?

Denyse O’Leary (whom I tend to link to often, and who I must thank for pointing out this article) comments:

Of course, I suspect that it is not “reality” that quantum physics bids us say goodbye to, but a simplistic materialist idea of how reality works. What if mind comes first, and is not an illusion created by the random fluctuations of matter in our brain.

She and Mario Beauregard have a book coming out called The Spiritual Brain: A Neuroscientist’s Case for the Existence of the Soul that should prove very interesting, especially considering all of the recent “evo-psych” nonsense being tossed about.

Perhaps The Matrix is just a movie after all.

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Wright thinking

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This school year I have been privileged to have facilitated an online class of high-school students using NT Wright’s recent book, Simply Christian: Why Christianity Makes Sense. As many who know me can attest, NT Wright is my favorite theologian. He has the ability to discuss the details without losing a grasp on the Big Picture, and I freely admit that his thinking has influenced my own thinking on a number of issues. In Simply Christian, Wright’s goal was “to describe what Christianity is all about, both to commend it to those outside the faith and to explain it to those inside.” My Wright’s own admission, this is a “massive task.” While no one book can hope to address all of the issues of Christianity, in 237 pages NT Wright has covered a lot of essential ground.

The book also has a very unique structure, starting with a general, philosophical backdrop by which to evaluate religion in general, and Christianity in particular. This first section deal with what he terms “echoes of a voice” – those things that compel all humans, justice, spirituality, community and beauty. Perhaps an odd way to begin a “primer” on Christianity, but brilliant. Without giving in to the traps that many would fall into such as logical proofs for God, Wright gets right to the heart of the matter, the universal intangibles that really define who we are as humans.

The next section deals with the “nuts and bolts” of Christianity, but again starting in perhaps an unusual place: Israel. Again, his approach is brilliant, using the same backdrop that God provided for Jesus to come. As he points out, without an understanding of God’s dealings with Israel, any discussion of Christianity is deficient, or perhaps nonexistent. In very concise chapters, Wright discusses the nature and identity of God (the Father), Jesus, the Gospel, the Kingdom of God and the Holy Spirit.

Part three narrows the focus, exploring the practical meaning of Christianity, what it means for us personally and what the mission of the Church is. Those who are hoping for a quick “cash out” at the rapture will be at the very least disappointed, as he shows how the mission of the church is, now that it has heard the voice itself, to act on those very themes that the “echoes” spoke of.

I think Wright succeeded in writing a book that would be of interest to those wanting to understand what Christianity is actually about, and which is also helpful to many who are Christians who don’t really have a clue what they believe, or why (there are huge numbers of these folks out there). It will not (or should not) answer all of your questions, but it is certainly a great start.

If you are interested, now that our class is finishing up, for a limited time you can take a look at our class blog. You won’t (or shouldn’t, if I set it up correctly) be able to comment, but you are free to peruse the posts and discussion.

Posted in Faith, Science & Doubt, Reviews | 2 Comments