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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;There&#8217;s something wrong with a nation where people don&#8217;t sing and dance&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://aldenswan.com/2007/12/theres-something-wrong-with-a-nation-where-people-dont-sing-and-dance/</link>
	<description>free speech, critical thinking, and really good coffee</description>
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		<title>By: Brianisha</title>
		<link>http://aldenswan.com/2007/12/theres-something-wrong-with-a-nation-where-people-dont-sing-and-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-631</link>
		<dc:creator>Brianisha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 11:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I would like to consider myself a very intelligent person.  America is going through a time of great change.  Its either Americans accept that Oliver Cromwellesque ruling style was a big mistake, or there will be more of what the Dark Ages were famous for.  The Dark Ages were very reliogiously motivated, and I know christians like to use the line  &quot; its not a religion....its a relationship,&quot; reguardless, the christian religion or relationship or way of life, or whatever cop out excuse that apologists can come up with - is responsible for a lot of cultural damage.  people need to learn to stop looking to Jesus for answers, and start looking to themselves for answers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to consider myself a very intelligent person.  America is going through a time of great change.  Its either Americans accept that Oliver Cromwellesque ruling style was a big mistake, or there will be more of what the Dark Ages were famous for.  The Dark Ages were very reliogiously motivated, and I know christians like to use the line  &#8221; its not a religion&#8230;.its a relationship,&#8221; reguardless, the christian religion or relationship or way of life, or whatever cop out excuse that apologists can come up with &#8211; is responsible for a lot of cultural damage.  people need to learn to stop looking to Jesus for answers, and start looking to themselves for answers.</p>
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		<title>By: On the nature of classic rock &#171; kroc: Alden&#8217;s Classic Rock Blog</title>
		<link>http://aldenswan.com/2007/12/theres-something-wrong-with-a-nation-where-people-dont-sing-and-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-630</link>
		<dc:creator>On the nature of classic rock &#171; kroc: Alden&#8217;s Classic Rock Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] My point in all this is to say that this Classic Rock period may have been the last time that Americans have had any kind of grass-roots, &#8220;folk&#8221; music. In my other blog, I quoted an Orthodox priest as saying, &#8220;There’s something wrong with a nation where people don’t sing and dance.&#8221; Go read that post - it finishes this thought off nicely. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] My point in all this is to say that this Classic Rock period may have been the last time that Americans have had any kind of grass-roots, &#8220;folk&#8221; music. In my other blog, I quoted an Orthodox priest as saying, &#8220;There’s something wrong with a nation where people don’t sing and dance.&#8221; Go read that post &#8211; it finishes this thought off nicely. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: me</title>
		<link>http://aldenswan.com/2007/12/theres-something-wrong-with-a-nation-where-people-dont-sing-and-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-629</link>
		<dc:creator>me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aldenswan.com/2007/12/03/theres-something-wrong-with-a-nation-where-people-dont-sing-and-dance/#comment-629</guid>
		<description>Richard,

Thanks so much for your comments. I understand what you&#039;re saying, and see that this is probably true (that they exist in part to preserve Eastern culture) for the Orthodox churches that I&#039;ve visited. One of my first contacts with the Orthodox church was a Priest who was himself born &amp; raised in Greece. I did actually attend an Orthodox storefront mission church a couple of times in southern California; it was a very interesting experience, but even there, it was heavily populated by &quot;transplants.&quot;

An &quot;Americanized&quot; Orthodox church would indeed be interesting, but as a Coptic friend of mine once pointed out, being Westernized tends to mean a loss of spirituality. She said that the difference between Churches in Egypt and America is considerable, due to the draw of the materialism of the West. I am sure she has a valid point.

By the way, I really enjoy the Greek Liturgy, although it&#039;s been many years since I&#039;ve been to an Orthodox church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your comments. I understand what you&#8217;re saying, and see that this is probably true (that they exist in part to preserve Eastern culture) for the Orthodox churches that I&#8217;ve visited. One of my first contacts with the Orthodox church was a Priest who was himself born &#038; raised in Greece. I did actually attend an Orthodox storefront mission church a couple of times in southern California; it was a very interesting experience, but even there, it was heavily populated by &#8220;transplants.&#8221;</p>
<p>An &#8220;Americanized&#8221; Orthodox church would indeed be interesting, but as a Coptic friend of mine once pointed out, being Westernized tends to mean a loss of spirituality. She said that the difference between Churches in Egypt and America is considerable, due to the draw of the materialism of the West. I am sure she has a valid point.</p>
<p>By the way, I really enjoy the Greek Liturgy, although it&#8217;s been many years since I&#8217;ve been to an Orthodox church.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Barrett</title>
		<link>http://aldenswan.com/2007/12/theres-something-wrong-with-a-nation-where-people-dont-sing-and-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-628</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Barrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I will also point out that your &quot;Existentialist theology vs. community&quot; post discusses some very good reasons why these things are seen as important. The problem you discuss of many of the songs being so personal not everybody you can sing them is right on. Orthodox liturgy is all about corporate worship, all about universal truth expressed in and experienced through community, and &quot;the medium is the message&quot; is another way of expressing a key guiding principle: Lex orandi, lex credendi--the law of prayer is the law of belief. You&#039;re not just singing your own song, but that of centuries&#039; worth of Christians who have come before you.

Richard</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will also point out that your &#8220;Existentialist theology vs. community&#8221; post discusses some very good reasons why these things are seen as important. The problem you discuss of many of the songs being so personal not everybody you can sing them is right on. Orthodox liturgy is all about corporate worship, all about universal truth expressed in and experienced through community, and &#8220;the medium is the message&#8221; is another way of expressing a key guiding principle: Lex orandi, lex credendi&#8211;the law of prayer is the law of belief. You&#8217;re not just singing your own song, but that of centuries&#8217; worth of Christians who have come before you.</p>
<p>Richard</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Barrett</title>
		<link>http://aldenswan.com/2007/12/theres-something-wrong-with-a-nation-where-people-dont-sing-and-dance/comment-page-1/#comment-627</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Barrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 16:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;b&gt;I think the Orthodox Churches err in the other extreme, using musical styles from another culture, another time period, and ruling that as more appropriate. Why? What makes music from somewhere else or some other time any better?&lt;/b&gt;

Well, the point is that the hymns of the Orthodox Church are every bit as much a part of Orthodox practice and belief as anything else. Ideally, what happens is that when the Orthodox Church evangelizes a given region, the texts are translated into the local language and over time, as part of a gradual, organic process, the music is adapted to match the language and the way people sing in a way that is still in keeping with the received tradition. This is what happened when the Byzantines converted Russia, and it&#039;s what the Russians attempted to do with the native tribes in Alaska. For various reasons, the situation in the United States has been far more complex; there have been a lot more Orthodox people here either fleeing Communism or trying to make money to send home than there have been trying to spread the faith, and as a result, the Orthodox here have been largely interested in preserving the culture they know from home.

Over the last few decades, however, there have been a growing number of American converts, and there is at present more of an intent to actually grow an indigenous American Orthodox Church. Until that solidifies (which will take time; impatience is not a good virtue for anybody interested in Orthodox evangelism), and certainly in the absence of a genuine folk singing tradition which can be adapted for the needs of Orthodox hymnody, parishes are probably going to mostly use adaptations of Byzantine or Russian chant to fit the English translations which are used. Maybe the closest thing we have to this would be Appalachian folk music or even shapenote/Sacred Harp singing; even then, though, these have still managed to become mostly recorded-and-heard traditions rather than sung traditions for a lot of people.

Hope this helps to clarify things.

Richard</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>I think the Orthodox Churches err in the other extreme, using musical styles from another culture, another time period, and ruling that as more appropriate. Why? What makes music from somewhere else or some other time any better?</b></p>
<p>Well, the point is that the hymns of the Orthodox Church are every bit as much a part of Orthodox practice and belief as anything else. Ideally, what happens is that when the Orthodox Church evangelizes a given region, the texts are translated into the local language and over time, as part of a gradual, organic process, the music is adapted to match the language and the way people sing in a way that is still in keeping with the received tradition. This is what happened when the Byzantines converted Russia, and it&#8217;s what the Russians attempted to do with the native tribes in Alaska. For various reasons, the situation in the United States has been far more complex; there have been a lot more Orthodox people here either fleeing Communism or trying to make money to send home than there have been trying to spread the faith, and as a result, the Orthodox here have been largely interested in preserving the culture they know from home.</p>
<p>Over the last few decades, however, there have been a growing number of American converts, and there is at present more of an intent to actually grow an indigenous American Orthodox Church. Until that solidifies (which will take time; impatience is not a good virtue for anybody interested in Orthodox evangelism), and certainly in the absence of a genuine folk singing tradition which can be adapted for the needs of Orthodox hymnody, parishes are probably going to mostly use adaptations of Byzantine or Russian chant to fit the English translations which are used. Maybe the closest thing we have to this would be Appalachian folk music or even shapenote/Sacred Harp singing; even then, though, these have still managed to become mostly recorded-and-heard traditions rather than sung traditions for a lot of people.</p>
<p>Hope this helps to clarify things.</p>
<p>Richard</p>
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