Monthly Archives for September 2007

Dawkins: God is a scientific hypothesis

Jonathan Miller, the noted British humorist, opera director and atheist, interviewed Richard Dawkins on evolution and related issues for a series he was doing for the BBC. In this segment (part 3 of 3 available on YouTube), Dawkins explains his belief that the question of the existence of God is a scientific issue:

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq9C6HglKRY]

It is my understanding that this was shown as part of Miller’s 2004 BBC shows, The Atheism Tapes. Parts 1 and 2 of this interview are also available on YouTube here and here. So, this is nothing new or groundbreaking, but as has been said before, it does provide support for including Intelligent Design and/or Creationism in science classes, regardless of the Dover decision. Dawkins, in taking this position, does appear somewhat braver than those who would rather silence any challenge to naturalism. Of course, I believe his logic is off, in his assumption that any God who involves himself in creation would necessarily be subject to a cause-and-effect analysis.

I also realize that in taking the position that I do – that God is not necessarily “testable” through the scientific method – that I sound as if I could end up siding with those wanting to keep Creationism out of the public schools. However, I’ve held all along that science and philosophy are (or should be) “joined at the hip.” Science without some “big picture” thinking (even allowing for the possibility that something exists outside of what we can touch and see), is dreadfully dangerous. The moral implications of “pure” science are horrifying – just take a look at Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein.

Dawkins, here, is at least thinking outside the box – or, rather, rethinking what should be in the box.

Dawkins’ central argument critiqued, Part 4

Over the last couple of weeks I have been critiquing the central argument of Richard Dawkins’ book, The God Delusion, as he has laid it out on pages 157 & 158. The argument consists of 6 points, 3 of which I have dealt with here, here, and here. Now, let’s finish up with his final 3 points (I’ll include points 1-3 in abbreviated form, for the sake of context):

  1. One of the greatest challenges … is the appearance of design.
  2. The natural temptation is to assume design.
  3. This temptation is false.
  4. “The most ingenious and powerful crane so far discovered is Darwinian evolution by natural selection. … living creatures … have evolved by slow, gradual degrees from simple beginnings. We can now safely say that the illusion of design in living creatures is just that – an illusion”
  5. “We don’t yet have an equivalent crane for physics. …”
  6. “We should not give up hope of a better crane arising in physics …”

This last part of Dawkins’ argument I will refer to as “Dawkins’ dream,” as that is in reality what it is. This is, perhaps, Dawkins’ version of John Lennon’s Imagine; a fairy tale which is as far from logic as it is from reality. (Wow… I’m pretty good at this rhetoric crap myself…)

Let’s take a look at his point number 4. (To refresh your memory on the “crane” analogy, read my last post.) While we certainly understand how some forms of evolution exist (it would be foolish to deny that some evolution doesn’t exist), Darwinian evolution, and particularly Dawkins’ brand of neo-Darwinism, doesn’t explain the evidence, and doesn’t explain the origins of life itself. Natural selection, for example, can only happen with there’s something to select from. The “poof” of non-life into life (at least into a replicating RNA sequence) requires another explanation. Also, there are plenty of folks who challenge the slow, gradual process from simple to complex. Part 3 of this series dealt in part with this issue.

Dawkins assertion that the appearance of design is an illusion is itself an illusion. It may make him happy to think that, but neither he nor any of his Darwinian buddies has done anything to rule out the possibility of design. Francis Collins, while I also challenge his logic in places, holds to evolution and common descent, but with a belief that a Creator God designed the process and provided the spark of life. Science can not rule out that which is outside the realm of science.

Point number 5 starts his position of what I refer to as the “Science of the Gaps.” You have probably heard atheistic scientists dismissively refer to any reference to Intentional Design as the “God of the gaps,” meaning that God is presumed to exist merely where there are gaps in science. Here, Dawkins has merely reversed the issue. He admits there are gaps in physics, even though he denies any meaningful gaps in biology. Others, of course, also admit there are numerous gaps in biology.

Finally, he completes his “Science of the Gaps” argument, with a plea for us not to lose hope that physics won’t fill in the gaps. He also here mentions the “Anthropic Principle,” which he claims is “self-evidently better than … an intelligent designer.” The Anthropic Principle is merely the argument that life happened simply because the conditions were correct. It’s actually not a bad argument when you look at it from a certain vantage point. It’s like someone doing a series of completely random actions on a calculator. After a combination of several dozen functions, adding 29, multiplying by 5, dividing by 3, and so on, you wind up with the answer of 5. You can certainly say that 5 is an accident; the circumstances just happened to fall into place to produce that number, and any other number would do just as well. If the series of functions were indeed random, “5″ is an accident.

It is another matter, however, if “5″ just happened to be the perfect number, the only number that would, in fact, do. In the case of the universe, we know many of the “functions” that were performed to get us here, although we certainly don’t know all of them. We also don’t know whether these functions were random, or designed. Those holding to the anthropic principle believe that in the universe, countless calculations have been done, and we live here simply because the random functions happened to be perfect. Those not limited to a materialist view (the “skyhook” view), look at the probabilities for fine-tuning the universe to work and see design as more probable than accident.

The anthropic principle is not self-evidently better than proposing design; it is only “self-evident” if your worldview prevents you from factoring in the possibility of design.

In summary, I have found Dawkins’ book to be – as with Victor Stengor’s book – a “failed hypothesis.” I really had been hoping it would have been more challenging, or at least more based in science. However, this was not the case. Dawkins may currently have a big voice in some circles, but it doesn’t seem that he is really adding anything of substance to the discussions.

News, views & miscellany

Old news makes the front page of the NY Times. It’s been widely reported in blogland (in fact, I’ve mentioned it here and here) that a couple of well-known anti-intelligence scientists have complained about being mislead by the makers of the upcoming movie Expelled, starring Ben Stein. Apparently the Times just heard about it and rushed it to the front page, but they (Cornelia Dean) left out the good parts. Go Times!

If you think it’s embarrassing to be an American… just take a look at the Council of Europe. I’ve posted about this before, but after seeing this on Uncommon Descent I just had to mention it again. Dembski’s right… this sounds as Orwellian as you can get.

On the “this should be a great book” front: Greg Boyd gives (following a completely hilarious response to this) us the table of contents of his work-in-progress, Revolting Beauty: A Theology and Practical Guide for Kingdom Revolutionaries. It looks interesting. Let’s hope he drops some more hints in upcoming posts.

Thinking with the Internet Monk

Michael Spencer’s post today at his blog, internetmonk.com, prompted a good little discussion on the nature of blogging, fisking and the discussion of theology, which often (usually) trespasses into areas of personal faith and belief. Because theology (man’s attempts to understand God) impacts in a very real way how we interact with God and accept how God wants to interact with us, discussions about theology should never be thought of as purely intellectual exercises.

As I pointed out in a comment on that post, when we are confronted with some different thinking on a theological issue, it provokes us to think the issue through in light of our own theological framework. Often that process appears as a challenge or a critique, which of course it is. From the standpoint of the reader, you can choose to critique something based on a theological framework (e.g. “it’s not Reformed, so it’s wrong”), or you can challenge yourself and your theology in the process. Often my responses to things start out, “I don’t think so, because…” This could sometimes be seen as being “critical,” which is a no-no in some circles, or it could be understood as thinking out loud from another perspective. When I think of it, I do try to indicate that’s what I’m doing. Sometimes.

This week I have been provoked in a good way by a couple of posts on i-monk on the localization of Jesus. The first post was titled Where’s Jesus?: Thoughts on a Locally Available Christ (a brilliant title) and asked the question, “Where can you get your Jesus?.” As the title implies, the post discusses the concept of trying to make Jesus – or see Jesus as – more present in one place than another. Examples include the “Real Presence” at Communion and concepts like God “showing up” at a certain church. While not denying that there is truth in some of these concepts, Michael proposes:

Presenting Christianity as a system of localized appearances of Jesus distorts many things that we want to continually affirm: Jesus as the one mediator, Jesus as the ascended Lord of the universe, Christ who is in the midst of his church and present with all of his people. Maintaining the Biblical balance between “Jesus on the table,” “Jesus in my experience” and “Jesus at the right hand of the Father is a crucial task for worship leaders, pastors and teachers.

In a follow up post, he discusses what he calls a sacramental view of reality. While not everyone would agree with his thinking or his language, what he presents is a great tool for examining how we see God’s presence in our lives, and how we function as churches. It would be nice, would it not, if we spent less time in church talking about how we could make our lives better, and spent more time recognizing the presence of God around us?

My friend Ken writes a couple of posts dealing with similar issues here and here.

On that note, I’ll sign off. Stay tuned for an upcoming post discussing another of the i-monk’s thought-provoking articles, this one on transactionalism, entitled Out of Business With God.

A critique of Dawkins’ central argument, part 3

I am very tempted to refer you all here and just be done with the whole thing, but as I have promised to complete my critique of Dawkins’ Delusional argument (yes, I admit it’s a cheap shot, but then I was raised watching Johnny Carson and David Letterman), I will continue with my thoughts on the central argument of The God Delusion as laid out by Richard Dawkins.

I left off discussing his 3rd point and the Cosmological Argument, my point being that his argument so far (leading to the question of “Who designed the Designer?”) fails to deal with the real issues. I did not mention one other key problem with his 3rd point. While the Cosmological Argument proposes that “everything that begins to exist has a cause,” this only applies to material things that began to exist.

When we are dealing with the proposal that there exists a pre-existent Creator-being who is outside of the natural world He created, including being outside of time itself, a different set of rules obviously apply. And, since time is a part of the created universe, there is no basis for claiming that such a Creator had a “beginning” as we understand it. There is, therefore, no logical inconsistency in holding that a physical universe had a beginning, but that a spiritual Creator did not. This may at first seem to be nothing more than a logical “sleight of hand” but upon serious consideration, it is nothing of the sort. That being said, let us move on.

The proverbial crane vs the skyhook

Dawkins’ point three includes the proposition that “only a crane can do the business of working up gradually and plausibly from simplicity to otherwise improbably complexity.” The crane, again, refers to a purely natural process, a process which exists entirely within the material universe, and the skyhook refers to a non-material process, such as a non-material, intelligent Designer-being. Dawkins believes the neo-Darwinian hypothesis that evolution must be a slow, gradual process from simplicity to complexity.

I find it very interesting that Dawkins throws this in his argument, as it’s a point which is not only questionable based on available information, it is debated by some fellow non-design evolutionists. The fossil record at the moment indicates periods of plateaus followed by relatively sudden extinctions and appearances of new species, such as what is known as the Cambrian Explosion. Here’s Dawkins on the importance of gradualism:

Evolution is very possibly not, in actual fact, always gradual. But it must be gradual when it is being used to explain the coming into existence of complicated, apparently designed objects, like eyes. For if it is not gradual in these cases, it ceases to have any explanatory power at all. Without gradualness in these cases, we are back to miracle, which is simply a synonym for the total absence of explanation. Dawkins, R. (1995) River Out of Eden, Basic Books, New York, p. 83.

Stephen J. Gould, on the other hand, had this to say:

The history of most fossil species includes two features particularly inconsistent with gradualism: 1. Stasis. Most species exhibit no directional change during their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much the same as when they disappear; morphological change is usually limited and directionless. 2. Sudden appearance. In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and “fully formed.” (Gould, Stephen J., “Evolution’s Erratic Pace,” Natural History, Vol. 86, No. 5, May 1977, p.14).

Each, of course, have there own naturalistic explanations of the data, and I don’t mean to misstate their positions. The point is merely that there are issues with the concept of gradualism, and it isn’t necessarily the given that Dawkins would want us to believe.

Also, recent discoveries would indicate that “simple to complex” isn’t necessarily correct. From TheScientist.com, Melissa Lee Phillips writes:


The genome of the sea anemone, one of the oldest living animal species on Earth, shares a surprising degree of similarity with the genome of vertebrates, researchers report in this week’s Science.

The study also found that these similarities were absent from fruit fly and nematode genomes, contradicting the widely held belief that organisms become more complex through evolution. The findings suggest that the ancestral animal genome was quite complex, and fly and worm genomes lost some of that intricacy as they evolved.

She also writes:

Previous studies have shown gene loss in flies and worms, but this work shows that loss “was highly substantial, even more significant than we expected before,” said Eugene V. Koonin of the National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) in Bethesda, Md., who was not involved in the work.

Now, the question arises, “Even if gradualism is the correct viewpoint, why is it essential that it be a natural process and not the result of a ‘skyhook?’” The answer is that it isn’t essential. It is, rather, a presumption from his overall argument that there is no Designer. In other words, it appears merely to be circular reasoning. There is no reason why a Designer could not choose to design a process which operates gradually. I think even the most ardent Fundamentalist Creationist would agree with the concept that God designed processes which does not require Him to personally raise up every stalk of corn, or what have you. Whether animals “poofed” into existence or resulted from an amazingly complex designed process, design is still design.

I think that’s quite enough for point #3. Points 4-6 follow from the “crane v skyhook” argument, so I am hoping to be able to sum all of this up in one more post. Keep your fingers crossed (but don’t hold your breath…).

More about Expelled

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed is not due out until February 2008, and for that matter it doesn’t even seem to be done filming yet, but it is sure causing a lot of stir. Starring Ben Stein, the movie is a documentary addressing the alleged anti-ID (anti-anti-Darwinian?) bias in the American scientific and education communities.

As I’ve written before, some of the anti-theist scientists interviewed for the film claim they were misled about the type of documentary it was, and fear how they will be edited for the film.

Producer Walt Ruloff recently gave a podcast-interview to Rob Crowther at Intelligent Design The Future, which addresses some of the questions and may perhaps cause even more stir. Some of the points made in the interview:

  • Those interviewed were provided both a full disclosure and release to sign, as well as provided the questions asked, before the interviews.
  • The responses will not be edited.
  • One of the leading genomic researchers in the country stated that a growing percentage of their research is pointing in directions that they can’t publish, or risk losing their funding.
  • 20% to 30% of their findings are being shelved

You can listen to part 1 of the interview here, and part 2 here.

Considering that a reported 85% of the population already question the materialistic evolutionary metanarrative, this film could very well threaten the status quo, and cause some examination of the Government’s funding process. A little skepticism is a good thing. I do hope, however, that the film’s producers stick to the facts. All it will take is some minor bits of misinformation to threaten the film’s conclusions. Although, that didn’t seem to hurt Al Gore or Michael Moore.

Dawkins’ central argument, Part 2: restating the problem

To recap briefly, Dawkins’ central argument in The God Delusion consists of 6 points. So far, we have listed three:

  1. One of the greatest challenges to the human intellect, over the centuries, has been to explain how the complex, improbable appearance of design in the universe arises.
  2. The natural temptation is to attribute the appearance of design to actual design itself.
  3. The temptation is a false one, because the designer hypothesis immediately raises the larger problem of who designed the designer.

Point number three is presented thus:

  • You cannot imply there is a designer, because then you have the origin of the designer to deal with.
  • The problem is in explaining the improbable with something more improbable
  • To explain the improbable, only a gradual process from the simple to the more complex will do.

Dawkins errs here, I believe, in how he presents his 3rd point. Granted, he has oversimplified here for brevity’s sake, but I think the problems are not due merely to oversimplification. Explaining the origin of the universe is more than just dealing with probabilities, although that is one way to approach the question. Here the issue often gets muddled up with arguments about whether God has to be a “simple” or “complex” being, forgetting that God would first of all not be subject to the same laws He created for the universe, and the issue of “simple or complex” is mostly irrelevant. Then, he assumes that a gradual process is required, which the evidence – for the Big Bang as well as the origin of species – does not support a gradual process. But, rather than get stuck here, let’s look at the origin of the universe from a different angle.

The cosmological argument in support of a god/creator is quite simple. While the basic argument has existed for many hundreds of years, within the last 100 years science has supplied support for the argument:

  1. Whatever has begun to exist has a cause.
  2. The universe began to exist.
  3. Therefore, the universe has a cause.

You would think that our first point would be a given, especially with scientists. If we were to assume that some things could pop into being without cause, then science for the most part falls apart. We couldn’t duplicate anything with any real assurance, and we’d be left to worry about random acts of creation. There is talk in quantum theory about the uncaused appearance of theoretical particles from a quantum vacuum, however this is not in any way related to the appearance of both matter and energy from absolutely nothing (besides which, the created particles are all hypothetical particles). Quantum models rely on a fine-tuned preexisting set of conditions (which beg questions of origin, etc.) and suffer from other problems as we shall see. I don’t claim to be an expert, so I will run the risk of oversimplification and briefly deal with some of the proposed alternatives to a “caused” universe.

Prior to Einstein’s work on general relativity and the development of the Big Bang theory, the universe was thought (except in the Bible, of course) to be eternal. However, this has now been shown not to be the case. There are those trying to come up with other explanations, such as Carl Sagan with his oscillating universe concept. The oscillating universe, besides breaking some laws of physics, has been shown mathematically to not be infinite after all, as entropy is preserved from oscillation to oscillation. Eventually, working backward, you’ll eventually come to a point of origin. Furthermore, indications are that the rate of expansion might be accelerating, not decelerating as in the oscillating hypothesis.

Some have proposed an eternally-existing state out of which the universe simply appeared, without any specific cause. However, this assumes an eternally existing set of conditions suitable for the creation of the universe, which means that as soon as the proper conditions existed, the universe would form. This would require the universe also to be essentially infinite. In the alternative, we still need a catalyst (cause) to explain the change from a stable set of conditions to a large, sudden, explosion.

Stephen Hawking has admitted in A Brief History of Time that “So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator.” He has, however, proposed the interesting Wave Function of the Universe hypothesis, in which the universe is finite, but does not have a Big Bang singularity. The point at which the universe came to be would be similar to the North Pole, a point among an infinite number of points on a curved surface, rather than a point on the end of an arrow. When you go back in time and approach the first fraction of a second of creation you never reach zero; somewhere close to zero time ceases to exist, and the curve takes you around going forward in time again.

Hawking accomplishes this by using imaginary numbers (i.e. the square root of -1) to avoid the singularity. The use of imaginary numbers is fairly routine, but they are always converted back to real numbers; in this case case, however, Hawking never converts the imaginary numbers back into real numbers. To do so, he has admitted, would cause the singularity to reappear.

However, even if we give Hawking his imaginary numbers, we still have a situation in which we have a point at which there are no prior points – in effect, there is still a beginning, it’s just not “zero.” To make his formula work, he also has to treat time as a spatial dimension, which is not necessarily justifiable. Hawking believes that this theory has done away with God (I believe he has calculated that there is a 95% chance that God doesn’t exist under this theory), but that does not appear to work in the event that God designed the universe this way. Hawking apparently has, by the way, admitted that this theory is not necessarily describing reality.

Looking at these proposals and the others that are out there, it seems that the chances that the universe had a beginning are still quite high. And, the chances are that if the universe had a beginning, it had a cause. If this is the case, then we must at some point deal with the nature of that cause (aka the First Cause). The question of what caused the cause, or “who designed the Designer” is not an argument against design; we are looking at the issue from inside the universe, and have no option but to work our way outward. If our study of the universe from within using the known laws of the universe leads us to conclude that there was a beginning, and that the beginning had a cause, then that is what we must consider. The next step, then, is to try to find that cause, if possible. Dawkins insists that we must look to a “crane” and not a “sky-hook;” next time we’ll take a look at this to see how it holds up.

Critical Thinking 101

I came across this in a post by Mike Gene at Telic Thoughts. It’s a fairly concise outline for critical thinking, which seems to be something of a dying art:

  1. gather complete information – more than one source
  2. understand and define terms (make others define terms, too)
  3. question the methods by which results were derived
  4. question the conclusion: do the facts support it? is there evidence of bias? remember correlation does not equal causation.
  5. uncover assumptions and biases
  6. question the source of information
  7. don’t expect all the answers
  8. examine the big picture
  9. look for multiple cause and effect
  10. watch for thought stopping sensationalism
  11. understand your own biases and values

From Human Biology: Health, Homeostasis, and The Environment, 3rd Edition, by Daniel D. Chiras.

Dawkins’ Central Argument, Part 1

In his chapter entitled Why There Almost Certainly Is No God (The God Delusion, pp 157, 158), Richard Dawkins lays out the central argument of the book, summarized in six numbered points:

  1. One of the greatest challenges to the human intellect, over the centuries, has been to explain how the complex, improbable appearance of design in the universe arises.
  2. The natural temptation is to attribute the appearance of design to actual design itself.
  3. The temptation is a false one, because the designer hypothesis immediately raises the larger problem of who designed the designer.

Let’s stop there for now, and take a look at the first two points. Assuming for a moment that Dawkins is correct on point one, that the “improbable appearance of design” has been a challenge to the human intellect, which is by no means a given, I will concede that number two, the natural conclusion (rather than “temptation”) is to assume that actual design exists. I would state propositions one and two slightly differently:

  1. The universe, and specifically the Earth and the various life the exists on the Earth, certainly give every appearance that they were not only created, but designed.
  2. The obvious and natural assumption is that the universe was indeed created and designed.

Point number two can be justified by the logic, if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, the chances are that it’s a duck. It can also be supported by the principle of logic known as Occam’s Razor: The simplest and most direct explanation tends to be correct. Of course, materialists have restated Occam’s Razor in order to support an atheistic explanation, but the proposition was first posited by a Catholic friar, William of Occam, to make the case that the only entity that need exist is God. Materialists have tried for some time to come up with a naturalistic explanation for the Universe, to make God the unnecessary being. However, the Big Bang and the deficiencies in other hypotheses have put God back in place as the most obvious creator/designer.

This brings us to Dawkins’ Point Three, that the assumption that the universe was designed is false because it raises the larger problem of who designed the Designer. I dealt with this flawed logic in my first post, but I’ll restate the problem. Dawkins’ objection appears to be nothing but a sleight-of-hand maneuver to avoid the issue, at least how he has expressed it. It seems illogical to conclude that a Designer designed the universe simply because you don’t have an explanation for the origins of the Designer, yet.

Dawkins proposes that the issue is statistical improbability, and it “is no solution to postulate something even more improbable” as an explanation. He then quotes the adage “we need a ‘crane,’ not a ‘skyhook,’ meaning that to explain the origin of the universe we need a cause from within the universe, not something from “the sky,” or from outside the universe. The reason Dawkins gives is that only a “crane” can “do the business of working up gradually and plausibly from simplicity to otherwise improbable complexity.”

Here we have what probably should have been multiple points:

  • You cannot imply there is a designer, because then you have the origin of the designer to deal with.
  • The problem is in explaining the improbable with something more improbable
  • To explain the improbable, only a gradual process from the simple to the more complex will do.

Dawkins never really presents this argument well; it seems that he has so little respect for those of a religious persuasion (and perhaps his audience) that he tends to oversimplify his arguments to the point of being rather dismissive. However, perhaps I can unravel his oversimplified logic in a rather simple, but still adequate manner, in my next post.

Framing is the new spin

At one time, framing referred to the building of supportive structure of something; our founding fathers, for example, are also known as the framers of the Constitution. Now, however, framing has an altogether new meaning. According to WikiPedia, “Framing defines how an element of rhetoric is packaged so as to allow certain interpretations and rule out others.

This used to be known as spin. Spin, however, began to take on negative connotations, once people started realizing that they were being had by the so-called spin doctors. Now, instead of being spun, information is being framed to put it in the best context possible. I’m guessing that the term came from photography, where you frame your subject in the viewfinder. You choose your composition carefully to emphasize your subject and to exclude as much undesirable elements in the as possible.

There is, perhaps, a slight difference between spin and framing, although the effect is roughly the same: the public ends up with incomplete but highly processed information. Spin is trying to nuance existing information, whereas framing has to do with how to present information to the public. Framing is all the rage in politics, as you can imagine. And now, framing is being talked about by scientists.

Yes, scientists. You see, it seems that the general public still doubts global warming, the benefits of stem-cell research, and even Darwinism. In fact, it seems that atheism is actually in decline! Anyone who has read A Brave New World or any number of other futuristic novels knows that in order for the science-elite to control the world, they need buy-in from the public. So, some scientists are suggesting that the answer is in framing the information to make it more acceptable, and even desirable (“it’s not a bug, it’s a feature”).

Matthew Nisbet is one such framing proponent, with his blog Framing Science. Chris Mooney is another, who writes:

So in today’s America, like it or not, those seeking a broader public acceptance of science must rethink their strategies for conveying knowledge. Especially on divisive issues, scientists should package their research to resonate with specific segments of the public.

The Post article also quotes PZ Myers, who takes a different view (it’s odd to actually agree with Myers at times…):

“I’d end up giving fluff talks that play up economic advantages and how evolution contributes to medicine … and I’d never talk about mechanisms and evidence again. That sounds like a formula for disaster to me – it turns scientists into guys with suits who have opinions, and puts us in competition with lawyers and bureaucrats in the media.”

So, the question of “to frame, or not to frame,” is still being debated, and I’m guessing we’ll hear more. With Ben Stein’s movie coming out in February, the framing issue may heat up, but we’ll have to see. Jake Young has an interesting look at the framing issue as it relates to science and atheism, Why Pairing Science and Atheism is High-Brow. Some problems with his thinking are pointed out by Joy at Telic Thoughts. Again, I expect we’ll hear more on framing science.